TRANSCRIPT
Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Bruce Billson interview with Ben Fordham.
2GB Sydney
Subject: Right to Disconnect Law for Small Business
Ben Fordham
Small business owners are already facing a stack of issues when it comes to running their companies. And this morning, they're waking up to new workplace regulations.
The federal government's right to disconnect laws have now been expanded to small business, and this is as of today, now, this morning.
It means staff working in companies with fewer than 15 employees now have the right to disconnect, just like larger companies. From today, those workers can refuse to answer any correspondence from their bosses outside of working hours, any calls or texts or emails which are considered unreasonable, can now be ignored. And if bosses breach the rules, they can cop a fine of up to $19,000. Small business advocates are raising the alarm, they say the changes will have a chilling effect on operations.
Bruce Bilson is the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, and he's on the line right now, Bruce, good morning.
Bruce Billson
Ben, awesome to be with you and your listeners.
Ben Fordham
I don't think that a lot of small business owners would have any idea that this starts today. What do you reckon?
Bruce Billson
I reckon you're probably right. I mean one of the problems is it's actually a solution looking for a problem. I mean, it's not really been a big issue in small business workplaces, they have a close-knit team, they know what's going on with the operations, and there's an understanding about what else is going on in people's lives.
But now there's a law. And the law, as you described it, is that there's no duty to respond to work calls outside hours if that's unreasonable. Now that's the trick. It's a little unclear what unreasonable means. But I think for most more businesses, I think this has change number 30 to the world's most complicated workplace relations system in the last few years.
It's just another thing, and they'll be wondering, am I doing the right thing or not? Am I having the right conversations? Am I being unreasonable? It's just another factor that really stretched small business owners have to consider.
Ben Fordham
Big business designers have already been walking the tightrope for the past year since this law was introduced. They say the right to disconnect increased the burden of red tape, as well as legal compliance, but now it's our small business owners who are being pulled into this web of rules, and it all comes down to that word unreasonable. Can we agree on what's reasonable and what's not?
Bruce Billson
Well at the moment, even though the larger organisations have been dealing with this for a year, I think there's been one case when someone said that they feel their decision not to respond to a call was a reasonable thing to do, and the employer thought otherwise, and that's been taken to be heard as a matter of let's see what unreasonable actually means, but it's really about thinking about the work that you've got ahead and having those conversations.
It's the sort of stuff that most small businesses do anyway, but it's the chilling effect of people wondering, oh do I just not answer that call, because I've got this new “right”? When you're thinking, hang on, you're a plant manager, there's a fire at the plant, it's not unreasonable for you to get that contact.
It's also about having good conversations, having the workplace check out what things might prompt a call after hours. The other thing too is that a lot of business owners work incredible hours, and it’s important to have even your emails set-up so it maybe doesn't get sent until first thing Monday morning, even though the small business owner might be working on the business of that email late on a Saturday night.
Ben Fordham
And what about burnout for the workers because even today, there's a report out today from the University of New South Wales surveying more than 5,000 primary and secondary teachers and 90% of educators say they're experiencing moderate to severe levels of stress.
There'd be a lot of workers as well saying ‘hey boss, I'm burnt out here. Can you please stop pestering me after hours?’
Bruce Billson
I think that's what prompted the law in the first place. There wasn't a lot of case history saying that this was a problem, but you could sort of feel the vibe that people are pretty extended. I think a lot of it's got to do with mobile phones.
I mean, if people that have got their work emails on their personal phone, you're not quite sure what's going on. Whereas for people that have got separate phones, well you can just put one aside. It's after hours, and if it's really super urgent, I've had the chat with the boss and they'll send me a text or call me on my private number, knowing that it's important, it's reasonable, it's a fair thing to do given my seniority in the workplace and what I'm paid to do in the nature of my operations in the workplace.
That's the sort of stuff people are grappling with, but I think the fact that your mobile phone that might be your personal device also is getting work traffic, that can I think add to that sense of stress and like it never goes away.
Ben Fordham
Most small businesses have sorted out these arrangements already, right?
They have great workers who work for them, and they think, you know, what this person's been going above and beyond, and they've taken a few calls after hours. It's Friday lunchtime, wanting to take an early mark today, these arrangements have been in place already for years.
Bruce Billson
And that's the thing, most small business are saying, hang on a minute we've been working this through, we're a close-knit team and we know what's going on in the business. The team understand what the pressures are on the business and what might cause an afterhours effort.
People who work for trades businesses, where a member of the team has got the van on the weekend, they might be doing their auntie’s bathroom tiling. It's a bit of a give-and-take and those conversations have been going on for a long time.
Now there’s a law there, so they're thinking, gee, I better not make a misstep here, I might be in a difficult situation or someone might want to weaponise it to give a small employer a bit of a hard time knowing that these rules haven't been designed with small workplaces in mind.
Ben Fordham
But let's see how they play out as of today for small business, it's always good to talk to you. Bruce, thanks for joining us.
Bruce Billson
Take care Ben.