TRANSCRIPT

Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Bruce Billson interview with Paul Turton.

ABC NSW

 

Subject: AgQuip, small farming business issues,

small business owners getting older

23 August 2023

 

Paul Turton

If you own a business, I just wonder are you're getting on a little bit, to not put too fine a point on it. Or have you thought of starting a business? Well, research from the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman has found that the most common age of small business owners across Australia is 50 years compared to 45 years in 2006.

And with only 8% of small business owners aged under 30, what are we going to do to get more younger people interested in setting up their own business? Bruce Billson is the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman and has been good enough to join me this morning. Bruce, thank you for doing that, by the way. Good morning.

Bruce Billson

Paul, fab to be with you and your audience sir.

Paul Turton

You join us from AgQuip. Of course, you are a bushy. You were born in Albury, weren't you?

Bruce Billson

I was born in Albury, that's right. And I'd like to say I'm still in primary production, but some people would know I'm taking the mickey because we're on four and a half acres in Murrumbateman. I'm talking to the guys here and they've got four and a half thousand hectares and several hundred head of cattle. And I talk about our two cavoodle cattle dogs. So, you know, it's a bit of a credibility gap there, Paul, but I'm having a go.

Paul Turton

Are you in Gunnedah because of your job or do you need a new tractor?

Bruce Billson

Both would be well serviced here. Part of my role and our agency's role is around dispute resolution. We get about six and a half thousand matters a year that come to us where a small or family business or a farming business is having a bit of a blue with, you know, often a big business or another business or even government. And going to court is no solution. They want a quick resolution, hopefully keep relationships intact and get back to business. And we do that as part of the service we offer.

And that extends to a couple of ag-related areas: dispute resolution under the dairy code, the food and grocery code, the horticulture code and franchise codes are a role that we have. I look around at some of these big pieces of kit and they're operating as franchise arrangements. The moo-juice producers making sure they don't upset the processors but still wanting matters resolved. And supply chains into some of the big supermarkets can be a tad character building as well.

So that's why we're here, letting people know that we're there to help and as well as some of our tax support where there's a brewing dispute with the ATO. The ATO’s a big powerful beast. We want to make sure a small, family and farming business are looked after well, and we can lean in and help out in that space as well.

Paul Turton

So you're handing out fridge magnets then?

Bruce Billson

I can't begin to tell you how popular our cyber protection little fridge magnet is, along with some helpful tips on how to keep yourself well so that you're in the best place to run your business well. That emotional wellness piece is very important. We see worryingly high levels of distress. COVID took a real pounding and a lot of people haven't been able to build back their emotional reserves, let alone their financial reserves. But I can't begin to tell you how popular our shopping trolley tokens are. You get two of them Paul. You can wear them as earrings, mate. They are going like wildfire here.

We're doing what we can, just letting people know we're a great ally for them and really see them, value them, respect the enormous contribution that small business and family business make. Half a trillion dollars to our economy, two in five of all the private sector job opportunities are made possible. In these communities, these small, family and farming businesses, they bring such vitality. They lean in on community work, on volunteer work. They are just so significant. I love them. I work for them. And that's why we’re here.

Paul Turton

Bruce, it's also great context, isn't it? A great location for our discussion because nowhere would these statistics be more relevant than in the farming community. The aging of businesses.

Bruce Billson

You're spot on. You touched on those numbers. The one that really stands out is we used to have 17% of small business owners in the mid 70s - you and I might have heard about this from our parents Paul - were under the age of 30.

Now it's 8% but in farming it's 4% are under the age of 30. And in fact the average age of a farmer is over 50. And you know, there's a few things at play here. How do you deal with the family business transition? Are your kids interested? What are you going to do if you keep trying to keep the peace by carving up bits of your property and you're getting into less productive units? Or is there someone wanting to buy into your business and, if so, who are they going to be?

So we're really calling this out as a real priority. What do we need to do to energise enterprise, give people a real sense of the joy, be realistic about the challenges, but the really purposeful and worthwhile life that can be led, leading and owning a small family or farming business.

Paul Turton

There's nothing more beautiful, of course, than all of the little towns that have, you know, in terms of infrastructure they might have a pub and a set of tennis courts, but they're servicing a farming community. So what's the fear of losing that important part of our social fabric with the aggregation of blocks and the corporatisation of agriculture?

Bruce Billson

It is that population pressure that because of it, and through it, you get a richer range of services and support. We often talk to the farming community, and even those working in more isolated parts of Australia, and they talk about loving their livelihood. But the livelihood alone isn't their entire life. There’s other dimensions. Where the kids are going to go to school? What's the opportunities for other family members to gain maybe off-farm employment? What are the health services? What's the infrastructure like to support a full-rounded life of which, you know, the farming side of it is the livelihood, and much of the character and personality and identity is interwoven into that. But there’s other considerations.

I was just at a manufacturing roundtable in Tamworth with a couple of the ministers talking about manufacturing and some of the great solutions and innovations in farm equipment, manufacturing and fabrication. What does that mean for broader manufacturing all the way through to are these the businesses that are going to help with the AUKUS project and might end up, you know, building bits of kit for subs.

So this was the conversation and it's so much about population and trying to keep a viable population base from which services and frankly, other possibilities, are within reach.

Paul Turton

So have you been able to put your finger on why so many younger people aren't interested in having their own businesses?

Bruce Billson

We haven't yet. Our hunches are, you know, the economy's been presenting quite a rich array of options for young people. There's been skill shortages and labour shortages so there’s been some scope to pick and choose and some of those options are less complicated. They don't come with the responsibility of business ownership. And part of that research that we're focusing on now, the rest of it talked about what sort of incomes people could earn and two-thirds of small and family business owners earn less than average total weekly wage.

So, there are other benefits, other appeals, other attractions. The sense of self management, flexibility, even purpose. A lot of young people want to do things that are purposeful as well as profitable. And we keep saying you're not that far away from being your own business owner. Have you thought about it?

And often it's not been something their career teachers have talked about. They've not been exposed to people who might give them a sense of what that looks like and why it's a delicious option. I mean, these are the sorts of things that we think are part of it, as well as constantly reminding government not to keep making it harder and harder because that adds to whether it's less attractive. And so that that's some of the work that we're doing, extra research and extra policy work on, arising from the crying need that the data you pointed to calls out

Paul Turton

Bruce, the other part of this, of course, is if you're in business getting people to work for you. So challenging at the moment. It must be heartbreaking for those who establish a business, work hard, and they just simply can't meet the demand that's out there.

Bruce Billson

It takes on a number of dimensions Paul. I'm sure many in your audience would know this, that the business owner is often the last to be paid. So, you know, there's a hyper awareness of responsibilities towards their team. In a small and family business those relationships are closer. It's not like you're in a big corporate where you might never speak to the boss. It's not like that. So there's this personal connectedness, and a sense of responsibility for the team. But then the flipside is, can I get the talent that I need? And if there's a shift that needs to be met, if there's a movement of the cattle that's required and there's no one else to do it. Well, guess who does it? That comes back to the owner, comes back to the business leader and that's the sort of stuff that people are talking about all the way through to complexity.

It's right that there's a strong effort to make sure people aren't getting ripped off in the workplace. You see the regulators and the Fair Work Ombudsman chasing up those that have done the wrong thing. But I had a couple of farmers come to me and say, look Bruce, I just want to know I'm doing the right thing. I'm just not sure what it is because it's so darn complicated. And we walked him through the award and we asked about the work that he was doing. So that's the thing, wanting to do the right thing, not always being certain of what it is.

And then the context of the talent and from many conversations here, you might snag somebody but where are they going to live? And to quote a crop-dusting business here, they finally got a helicopter pilot they've been chasing for years. And then when preparations were being made for them to move into the community, in this case the wife rang the local health clinic to see if the doctors were there that they’ll want and got told here was a 1400-person waiting list to get onto the list of that doctor, and they're like, whoa, hang on a minute.

So, it comes back to that earlier point you were raising about those broader services playing such a part in attracting not only business owners, but the talent, the team, the skills and the people to bring that business to life.

Paul Turton

Bruce Billson, thanks for chatting to us from AgQuip in Gunnedah. I have it on good authority, by the way, that even 4.5 hectare farms need a combine harvester, so go crazy today.

Bruce Billson

Thank you, sir. I'll go and check. There's plenty of delicious options here and anyone in the region come and check it out. It is quite eye watering the range of displays that are here, and interestingly Paul, a lot of people thinking about a less water abundant environment. Some of those blending bins that make sure that the livestock are getting all the protein and goodness they need. That's interesting, just seeing people planning for that next phase of our variable climate.

Paul Turton

Yeah, good on you thanks, Bruce.

Bruce Billson

Thank you.

Paul Turton

There is the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman joining us on ABC New South Wales.

ENDS