TRANSCRIPT

Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Bruce Billson interview with Nadia Mitsopoulos.

ABC Radio Perth

Subject: Future of cash

Nadia Mitsopoulos

Well I want to go to Bruce Billson, who's the Small Business Ombudsman. Bruce, good morning, and thank you for joining me.

Bruce Billson

Nadia, fab to with you and your listeners.

Nadia Mitsopoulos 

And now is this a good idea? 

Bruce Billson 

I think it's the bones of a good idea, but I think as you probed in your questioning and can I add to the plaudits, great journalism Nadia.

We need to know a little bit more about what's actually going to happen in operation. It is the bane of consumers lives when they go with legal tender to pay for something and they can't actually pay in cash. And they're going on this is legal tender.

The flip side of that, though, is for too many small businesses, particularly in your regional, rural and remote audiences where there's no bank, there's no ATM anywhere nearby and people are fronting up to local businesses, expecting them to be the automatic teller machine, to cough up some cash because no one else is around. So I think they're interconnected, it would be good to know more about what's essential and what's not. And then what the carve out that looks like for small and family businesses.

Nadia Mitsopoulos 

Because I imagine that there are some businesses, smaller businesses that may want an exemption, I guess because of the very things you're talking about. 

Bruce Billson 

Yeah, and we've seen it in, you know, in other parts of the country where they’ve had a little bit of a law-and-order problem in some of the regional and remote communities, not handling cash has been one of their safety measures and for a range reasons. 

You might have a number of days taking that would make you an attractive target for someone wanting to relieve you of your hard earned and then that can represent a challenge.

But then the flip side is like one of your callers mentioned, for grey nomads - this is how they manage their money. There is a cost involved and it really depends on where it lands. 

The other thing we should be aware of, and this is often spoken about as something mature aged people tend to lean toward, there's quite a trend for people learning about financial literacy by having cash folders or cash stuffing it's often called, or budget envelopes. Where you actually get real money and apportion your money against your rent and what not, and for young people they're seeing this is a better way of learning that money just doesn't keep coming when you keep tapping and that you need to manage it.

So that will be interesting too and that's a bit of a trend picked up on some of the social media channels. 

Nadia Mitsopoulos 

So there's going to have to be flexibility here. 

Bruce Billson 

I think so particularly, as I mentioned earlier, there's some locations where large amounts of cash aren’t in anybody's interest to have hanging around, and that’s something that needs to be thought through. 

But also it's pretty simple and I think the minister called it out if it's legal tender, how come I can’t use it?  You and I have spoken once before about, what we call disaster preparedness and resilience, when you’re so reliant on digital systems and technologies and they fall over, What’s ‘plan b’ look like? 

This is where there's a need to maintain that functionality around cash in economies so they can continue to function when things aren’t going the way people hope.  

Nadia Mitsopoulos 

Bruce Billson is the Small Business Ombudsman and my guest this morning. 

I don't know if you saw the report in the Australia Financial Review, but it is talking about regional banking service obligations so that those banks that can provide a minimum service and if they can't, then they pay another provider to do that. Is that a good idea? If the Government goes ahead with that particular option?

Bruce Billson 

Well, was something needs to happen. I mean, we've been very outspoken and presented to the parliamentary inquiry on this very topic, saying that for small and family businesses having reasonably available bank branch, is not just about the day-to-day transactions. It’s also where they go to get advice around farm management deposits, how they finance their equipment, their systems, their stock. It's more than just having someone there at the counter, it's the financial advice, that ally that you expect your bank to be when you're in business.

Nadia sadly there's a number of branches around that are branch in name only and they don't even take or receive cash, or make cash available. It's not just about the physical presence, it's the range of services that are available and having access to those services is so central to small and family businesses and the challenges they face, and the contribution they are making to our communities. 

Nadia Mitsopoulos 

And that is not lost on them. Bruce Billson, always good to talk to you. Thank you.

Bruce Billson 

Great to be with you.